This was not my chosen forum in which to clear things up , but my numerous emails to Mr. Reynolds were greeted with I don't owe you an apology for calling you a bigot, you owe MeFi an apology for your homophobia. I attempted to explain that any homophobe worth his salt wouldn't be caught crossing the street to clear up such an issue with a confirmed homosexual, hoping this would distinguish me from bonafide homophobes out there, but no such luck.

I don't take such an accusation lightly any more than I would racist or misogynist and so forth. I have been outspoken about crimes against gays & supporting gay marriage since my first days on MeFi, and am not sure whatever evidence of innocence I am expected to provide. I have friends and family reading this site who I certainly don't want to mislead into thinking I would deliberately ridicule someone's sexuality. Sometimes a label like homophobe sticks, even when you're innocent, and you're judged for it indefinitely. Before that happens, I'd like to clear the issue up by apologizing openly and explaining that I harbor no such bigoted feelings against Mr. Reynolds, digaman, or any other gay MeFites.
posted by dhoyt at 9:22 PM PST on January 4

Homophobia is gay.
posted by naxosaxur at 9:33 PM PST on January 4

Damn dhoyt. Stop being such a drama queen.
posted by xmutex at 9:35 PM PST on January 4

dhoyt-

For what it's worth, I'm with you on this one. Until the other thread, I never associated the phrase with homosexuals in any way; it never even occurred to me. In my own case, when I hear the phrase, I think of my niece (shown trying on my wife's wedding gown when she was 12) who aptly fits the description. If I use the phrase with a guy, I tend to say "Drama King" like they did in Shrek 2, but even if I heard someone call a guy a "Drama Queen", I wouldn't associate it with homosexuality. If anything, I would simply think the guy was acting overly dramatic, typical of what my niece often does.
posted by Doohickie at 9:39 PM PST on January 4

dhoyt: I applaud your sensitivity to AlexReynolds, but as for myself would chalk it up to hypersensitivity on his part.
As one of the HomoMefi members, I do not consider, perceive or believe "drama queen" is a slur directed solely at the gay community. This term has made it from the gay subculture into modern vernacular and can be found in use on many platforms of communication.

Overly dramatic people = drama queen in the Manual I got from the kind folks who gave me the official toaster.
posted by sillygit at 9:40 PM PST on January 4

i remember, as a wee lad, when i thought 'fairies wear boots' was about gays. imagine my surprise when i learned it had nothing at all to do with gays. go figure.

actually, i had no idea whatsoever that the term 'drama queen' had any gay connotations. does this mean we can't use it anymore?
posted by poopy at 9:43 PM PST on January 4

I would like to have everyone know that when someone says "donut" I take it very personally and it can be quite traumatic for me.

So, in the future, out of a concern for my personal well-being, I would like all MeFi users to stop using this hotly derogatory term "donut". You may, instead, use "fried breaded pastry" or somesuch.

I thank you in advance for being caring individuals.
posted by xmutex at 9:43 PM PST on January 4

God, I can't stand DONUTS!
posted by Doohickie at 9:45 PM PST on January 4

:(
posted by xmutex at 9:46 PM PST on January 4

When I hear Drama Queen I think the Queen of Hearts. I don't think she's a gay icon, but given all the weird bunnies and floating cats in that book, who really knows.
posted by dness2 at 9:46 PM PST on January 4

If UrbanDictionary is any judge, AlexReynolds needs to get his head out of his ass long enough to realize that his little corner of Pennsylvania does not dictate the rules of slang usage to the internets.

Also, he's a damn newbie who talks too much. So you really shouldn't care if he wants to flip out over nothing.
posted by Galvatron at 9:48 PM PST on January 4

From Dictionary.com:
1 entry found for drama queen.
Main Entry: drama queen
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: any person who overreacts to a minor problem or situation.

I'm just sayin'.
posted by FlamingBore at 9:49 PM PST on January 4

AlexReynolds is a goddamn drama queen.
posted by keswick at 9:50 PM PST on January 4

The phrase may have at one time been a slur towards gay men, but it has become such a part of common usage that while the phrase may not be wholy removed from its homosexual connotations, there is a whole nother meaning to the word that has nothing to do with being gay, or with gay being bad.

Like you can call a man a bitch now and no one would think to call you a misogynist.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:52 PM PST on January 4

Fucking bullshit, drama queen's not solely a gay thing, that's stupid to think and dumber to get all up in arms about it. Especially since dhoyt went well, well, well out of his way to try and make amends.

Do people get pissed off in real life and then come here to look for someone to get into a fight with?

The place has become utterly rampant with whining lately.

On preview, what keswick said.
posted by fenriq at 9:53 PM PST on January 4

Oh yeah, that's a good point. I think AlexReynolds is a little bitch too.
posted by keswick at 9:53 PM PST on January 4

I debated whether to respond privately or not. I know going into this that any response I'll give will get trashed out of context.

Apologies are not usually used as a platform to rationalize.

So, thanks, I guess.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:54 PM PST on January 4

dhoyt, even if AlexReynolds was being over-sensitive it's important to make you stance on these issues clear and apologizing. That's part of what it means to be in a community, I think. [/applaud]

sillygit, holy shit did you really get a toaster when you came out of The Closet?
posted by nixerman at 9:55 PM PST on January 4

Especially since dhoyt went well, well, well out of his way to try and make amends.

Actually he sent about ten emails asking for the same goddamn explanation over again. So fenriq, can I suggest you not comment about how dhoyt was the victim here?
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:56 PM PST on January 4

i like rubbing donuts all over my body. especially the ones with jelly on the inside. they're all squishy.
posted by poopy at 9:57 PM PST on January 4

What quonsar and keswick have said so far is making it damn clear what kind of "apology" this really isn't. Wow.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:58 PM PST on January 4

Alex: Serious question for you: Is there a victim here?
posted by Doohickie at 10:01 PM PST on January 4

I have a bad feeling about this.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:01 PM PST on January 4

I think that if you truly appreciate the apology of a person who want to give you one, it shouldn't degrade that apology if other people think that the apology was unwarranted.
posted by 23skidoo at 10:01 PM PST on January 4

Alex- quonsar's and keswick's assholiness have no bearing on dhoyt's sincerity. Please don't associate them with dhoyt.

On Preview- what 23 skidoo said.
posted by Doohickie at 10:02 PM PST on January 4

So you really shouldn't care if he wants to flip out over nothing.

Actually it was more a remark on dhoyt's thread about how, if he's going to complain about other's comments, he should expect complaints about his own. But expecting people to read carefully is too much to expect.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:03 PM PST on January 4

stavros: You forgot to use your <HanSolo> and </HanSolo> tags...
posted by Doohickie at 10:03 PM PST on January 4

Seriously, dhoyt, using this thread to get back at AlexReynolds was childish. You didn't think you had to apologize (and I agree); so you should have just let the whole thing drop.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:04 PM PST on January 4

Alex: Serious question for you: Is there a victim here?

I don't care anymore. I stopped caring after the fifth email from dhoyt asking me to apologize to him. But of course that wasn't mentioned. Go to town, folks.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:05 PM PST on January 4

My advice to BOTH dhoyt and AlexReynolds:

The first thing about gettin' out of a hole is to know when to stop diggin'.

I think it might be best if we all just let this drop.

Peace.
posted by Doohickie at 10:07 PM PST on January 4

To both of you:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only true path to sincerity is offering a hand in friendship. One of you needs to cut off, and extend, that hand.
posted by interrobang at 10:09 PM PST on January 4

One of you needs to cut off, and extend, that hand.

Smartest comment, so far.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:10 PM PST on January 4

Also, he's a damn newbie who talks too much. So you really shouldn't care if he wants to flip out over nothing.

Oh, and Galvatron, most of my "talks too much" has been answers on AskMeFi, lately. So fuck off with your "newbie" shit.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:12 PM PST on January 4

You can suggest whatever you like. Until you chimed in, I had dhoyt's side. Did you ever explain it to him? Or did you just ignore his request to understand his "transgression"?

I wasn't calling dhoyt the victim, I don't think there is one. Drama-queen isn't a strictly gay perjorative, sorry if you thought it was one but its not. And calling you one in particular, out of the many, many drama queens at MeFi, is kind of funny. Especially coming from dhoyt.
posted by fenriq at 10:12 PM PST on January 4

Did you ever explain it to him?

Yes, twice by email and several times through the aforementioned thread.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:18 PM PST on January 4

dhoyt, using this thread to get back at AlexReynolds was childish.

You're jumping to some serious conclusions. He blindsided me with wild accusations in the original thread. I took it to email in order to spare everyone the silly details. It didn't work. I apologized publically at his request. I assumed he would do the same. So here we are.

you should have just let the whole thing drop.

Being called something like a 'bigot' is not something I let drop, just as being called a 'faggot' might be something over which a gay man might (understandably) lose his cool. I'll say again, I apologize if anyone misread my comment as homophobic.
posted by dhoyt at 10:19 PM PST on January 4

This thread is not an apology. It is simply to mock AlexReynolds.

And of that, I approve.
posted by BradNelson at 10:19 PM PST on January 4

/applause
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:21 PM PST on January 4

.
posted by Doohickie at 10:27 PM PST on January 4

*clap STUMP, clap STUMP, clap STUMP*
posted by interrobang at 10:27 PM PST on January 4

*grabs popcorn and a seat*
posted by casarkos at 10:33 PM PST on January 4

Holy shit.

I'm a big fucking homo, and I have never thought of the term 'drama queen' as bigoted or even directly related to gay men. FFS, the first time I ever heard the term used was to refer to a girl!

dhoyt, you didn't do anything wrong. You're clearly not a bigot.

Alex, seriously, have a martini, smoke a joint, and calm down. 'Drama queen,' as has been shown repeatedly in this thread, isn't a homophobic epithet. Save your energy for idiots who use the word 'gay' to mean 'bad,' for example.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:34 PM PST on January 4

This thread needs to apologize to me.
posted by jefbla at 10:35 PM PST on January 4

Alex, seriously, have a martini, smoke a joint, and calm down.

If you had context about what was sent privately to me, and what triggered all of this, I am really not the person who needs to "calm down".
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:40 PM PST on January 4

Why keep anything private now? This is some sort of Xanga fight gone HUGE, let's have the posts of the e-mails! Then we can have some sort of reality show phone poll on who is in the wrong!

if I were not an insomniac...
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:42 PM PST on January 4

and what triggered all of this...

from what i saw (and correct me if i'm wrong), dhoyt used the words 'drama queenery' in a sentence and you went all kung-fu on his ass.
posted by poopy at 10:48 PM PST on January 4

not that there's anything wrong with that.
posted by poopy at 10:49 PM PST on January 4

I don't care anymore. I stopped caring after the fifth email from dhoyt asking me to apologize to him. But of course that wasn't mentioned. Go to town, folks.

So did you apologize to him as he deserves or not?
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 10:53 PM PST on January 4

yawn.
posted by LouReedsSon at 10:53 PM PST on January 4

MetaFilter: Kung-fu Drama Queenery.
posted by fandango_matt at 10:56 PM PST on January 4

i like rubbing drama queens all over my body. especially the ones with jelly on the inside. they're all squishy.
posted by chicobangs at 10:57 PM PST on January 4

and you went all kung-fu on his ass

OMG YOU ARE ASIANOPHOBIC
posted by 23skidoo at 11:01 PM PST on January 4

Actually, Alex, all I see--and yes, I went through the threads in question--is you freaking out on him for something, again, which has been clearly established to not belong to the gay community, and equally clearly was not intended to be homophobic in nature.

If one or the other of those conditions did not obtain, a certain amount of upset would be understandable.

But they do, and it's not.

And yes, Alex, you do need to calm down. You called him, quote, a "fucking homophobe," over a term which is not homophobic.

Believe me, Alex, I understand your frustration. I'm gay too; I've grown up with a lot of the same bigoted bullshit that you have. But this just wasn't, okay?

Stop wasting your energy, and fight against something that is actually homophobic.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:03 PM PST on January 4

So did you apologize to him as he deserves or not?

No, not yet, and neither you nor most people on this thread have the perspective to say whether or not he deserves an apology, frankly.
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:05 PM PST on January 4

neither you nor most people on this thread have the perspective to say whether or not he deserves an apology, frankly

This MAY be true, as I don't know what happened in email. But I'm assuming (may be wrong) that the emails all came AFTER your original freakout. And no matter what happened afterward, if that was in fact the initiating point, you owe a huge apology for going off on a paranoid loony persecution rant.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 11:08 PM PST on January 4

A repost of my comments from an earlier discussion:

My earlier comment -

"Regarding the term "drama queen" ... it has a long history of being used in reference to gay men.

Many gay men - like me - have co-opted numerous pejorative words (i.e. fag, queer) intended to demean us and have sought to turn them on their heads. For example, the chant "We're here, we're queer, get used to it" is an example of the co-opting of a vitriolic term. In this instance, gay men in the late 80's/early 90's drafted the term "queer" and used it as a vocal refrain during ACT-UP! (AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power) and other demonstrations to shock society at large to pay attention and to address a rising/raging health crisis. Since then "queer" has become part of our popular lexicon (i.e. "Queer As Folk"' "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy", etc.). While this particular term has evolved to having additional nuance, it still can be used in contexts and settings as a demeaning, hurtful epithet ("Fucking queer."). The person who uses the term and the situation become extremely relevant in determining the intent of the word's use.

"Drama Queen" is used quite frequently by gay men in a humorous fashion ("Drama Queen: The Gay Man's Guide to an Uncomplicated Life"). Even so, if the term is used with malicious intent, it still carries the punch of an insult.

Much of the discussion above is reminiscent of that which took place after Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy's book "Nigger - The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word" was published in 2002."
posted by ericb at 11:09 PM PST on January 4

I do agree with - 23skidoo : "The phrase may have at one time been a slur towards gay men, but it has become such a part of common usage that while the phrase may not be wholy removed from its homosexual connotations, there is a whole nother meaning to the word that has nothing to do with being gay, or with gay being bad. Like you can call a man a bitch now and no one would think to call you a misogynist."

In the end - it all comes down to "intent" of the term's usage and its application and implication.
posted by ericb at 11:16 PM PST on January 4

This MAY be true, as I don't know what happened in email. But I'm assuming (may be wrong) that the emails all came AFTER your original freakout. And no matter what happened afterward, if that was in fact the initiating point, you owe a huge apology for going off on a paranoid loony persecution rant.

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head right there.

And frankly, Alex, I think many of us here do have the fucking perspective to tell you that you need to pull your overinflated head OUT of your ass for a change, and apologize for freaking out for no good reason.

On preview:

Eric, yes, I'm familiar too with reclaiming words and so forth... but the fact is, 'drama queen' had passed into public lexicon by 1991--which is when I first heard it, when I was twelve. From one girl to another. Make of that what you will.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:17 PM PST on January 4

dirtynumbangelboy - hence my acknowledgement of 23skidoo's perspective.
posted by ericb at 11:21 PM PST on January 4

And frankly, Alex, I think many of us here do have the fucking perspective to tell you that you need to pull your overinflated head OUT of your ass for a change, and apologize for freaking out for no good reason.

IANAP, but once the head becomes inflated, that's when it's the *most difficult* to remove.
posted by interrobang at 11:23 PM PST on January 4

I personally take no offense with the terms "fag", "queer", "drama queen", etc. - so long as they are not used in a vitrolic, pejorative fashion - since I see them as having been "neutralized" (for the most part) by their usage in the "popular lexicon" over the past decade.

Nonetheless, these same words still have the potential to express contempt; to intend insult and harm when used with malice.
posted by ericb at 11:27 PM PST on January 4

If dhoyt offered a genuine apology -- if it was genuine -- then I apologize for calling him a bigot. Fair enough?
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:30 PM PST on January 4

Nonetheless, these same words still have the potential to express contempt; to intend insult and harm when used with malice.

That about sums it up. When called on it by AlexReynolds and amberglow, dhoyt just had to apologize and clarify that this is, indeed, not what he intended. This is the sensible thing to do. This is the way people in a community behave.

It's good to see the pile on again AlexReynolds though. It just kind of drives the point home.
posted by nixerman at 11:36 PM PST on January 4

and clarify that this is, indeed, not what he intended

Which was done, repeatedly, and clearly.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 11:45 PM PST on January 4

Which was done, repeatedly, and clearly.

On this thread, finally.
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:48 PM PST on January 4

If dhoyt offered a genuine apology -- if it was genuine -- then I apologize for calling him a bigot. Fair enough?

No, not fair enough.

You attacked him for something he did not do, which apparently you simply are incapable of understanding.

He deserves a simple, unqualified apology from you. None of this mealymouthed "if it was genuine" bullshit.

Suck it up, be a man, and actually apologize, Alex. That means understanding that you did something wrong.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:56 PM PST on January 4

"God bless us, everyone!" - Tiny Tim. ["A Christmas Carol", Charles Dickens].
posted by ericb at 12:00 AM PST on January 5

He deserves a simple, unqualified apology from you.

No comment!
posted by AlexReynolds at 12:01 AM PST on January 5

dhoyt, this cocksucking light in the loafers fucking faggot thinks you're okay in his book. Now kiss me.
posted by WolfDaddy at 12:46 AM PST on January 5

*sigh*
posted by AlexReynolds at 12:47 AM PST on January 5

The Dude: And, you know, he's got emotional problems, man.
Walter: You mean... beyond pacifism?
posted by geekyguy at 1:51 AM PST on January 5

AlexReynolds, I disagree with dhoyt on just about every issue. But you owe him a big apology, you fucking drama queen.
posted by salmacis at 2:03 AM PST on January 5

Nixerman: "When called on it by AlexReynolds and amberglow, dhoyt just had to apologize and clarify that this is, indeed, not what he intended."

John: "Which was done, repeatedly, and clearly."

Alex: "On this thread, finally."

Whuh? I was there in the original thread. It was a constant stream of "That word is not related to homosexuality", "I'm not using this word for anything related to homosexuality", "There is no homosexual content implied in the use of that word."

Unless the part you're focussing on is the "apologizing" part, not the "clarify that this is, indeed, not what he intended." In which case, you're right, he finally apologized to you, even though he did nothing wrong in most of our opinions, because you think he did something wrong.

Speaking of which:

Alex: "I know going into this that any response I'll give will get trashed out of context."

I'd like you to apologize to all of the low-income caucasian people in this thread for the blatant insult in this sentence.
posted by bugbread at 2:05 AM PST on January 5

Reading this thread, AlexReynolds alludes to seemingly inappropriate emails sent to him by dhoyt. This struck me as odd, because not having read the original threat, I thought Alex merely pointed out that he considered "drama queen" an anti-gay slur. Well, in actuality, Alex wrote: Fuck you, dhoyt, you fucking homophobe.

Alex, you were either trolling, or you have some kind of emotional disorder. I think you were trolling. Pretty clever, actually. Not many trolls actually get their victim to apologize to them.
posted by Doug at 2:17 AM PST on January 5

If dhoyt offered a genuine apology -- if it was genuine -- then I apologize for calling him a bigot. Fair enough?

In private, dhoyt may have been very different, but from what I gather, he's a gay friendly person who was deeply and personally troubled by your attacks. However, what is available to those of us not privy to the private exchange is startlingly clear. Look, I'm sorry you were offended, but you've blown every single chance to let this small misunderstanding go. Instead, you've turned this into a public debate in which many will judge you as the aggressor.

You've probably seen people on MeFi defend the actions of some asshat who stepped over the line by saying, "Grow a thicker skin." I know it doesn't sound sincere or even useful, but take it from someone who, in real life, is quite sensitive and emotional and not afraid of showing it. It is better, in my experience, to not react at all and be hurt privately than retaliating against an attacker that doesn't exist.

You're reaction strikes me remarkably similar to the popular misunderstanding of the word "niggardly". In fact, there was a relatively well publicized event with a caucasian aid to the African American mayor of Washington, D. C. who used the word in a private staff meeting. If you're not familiar with it, here's the best one sentence description I could find of it:

Didn't anyone else find it strangely hypocritical when, back in 1999, a white aide to Washington, D.C., Mayor David Howard was forced to resign for using the word niggardly -- this, in a city that steadfastly roots for a football team that uses an overt racial slur for its nickname? (1)

posted by sequential at 2:36 AM PST on January 5

"Alex wrote: 'Fuck you, dhoyt, you fucking homophobe.'

Alex, you were either trolling..."

No, that's his usual rhetorical style. AlexReynolds is dogmatic, aggreived, and frothing at the mouth. He's just a swell guy.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:53 AM PST on January 5

Ahhh. AlexReynolds is Welsh. That explains everything. Boyo.
posted by seanyboy at 3:28 AM PST on January 5

So I guess the Walt Disney movie Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen is totally homophobic then.
posted by driveler at 4:38 AM PST on January 5

Ahhh. AlexReynolds is Welsh. That explains everything.

It doesn't explain why he uses so many vowels.
posted by yerfatma at 4:44 AM PST on January 5

*sigh*

You know what Alex sweetie? That sigh was just a little too dramatic for my tastes. J'accuse!

Methinks the lady doth protest...a little too much. Get a thicker skin, dude, and move on from this. You've already embarassed yourself in public. What could be more drama-queeny than that?
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:47 AM PST on January 5

So I guess the Walt Disney movie Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen is totally homophobic then.

Keep in mind, that movie was underwritten by Phred Phelps and was originally titled "Confessions of a Fag that God Hates". So, yeah, I think it's safe to say it was a $15,000,000 attack on homosexuals that was converted to a stealth attack.
posted by bugbread at 5:26 AM PST on January 5

I don't care anymore.

then why won't you stop talking?
posted by glenwood at 5:40 AM PST on January 5

"Drama queen" may once have been a pejorative directed at gays, but I doubt it. "Queen" (or "quean" in older usages: go figure) was a pejorative, but when you start to add modifiers, it becomes more descriptive. We have, for example, rice queens, taco queens, show queens, opera queens (my boyfriend has stopped complaining when I call him that), and a host of others. A guy I know once called me a "foreplay queen," but aside from being TMI, that was, I think, a compliment.

Anyway, the initial usages of "drama queen" most likely came from within the gay community and were directed by the gays to the gays, but now I mostly use the term to mildly tease my (straight) daughter when she's being too much of a teenager.

I do think, however, that dhoyt owes all of us an apology for "drama-queen." That hyphen is way, way out of line.
posted by anapestic at 5:44 AM PST on January 5

I don't know, anapestic. With the hyphen it looks more like a verb.

A verb I'm now going to drama-queen all over some conversation or other at least twice today.

Spite. It lasts a long, long time.
posted by chicobangs at 5:51 AM PST on January 5

We have, for example, rice queens, taco queens, show queens, opera queens

Let's not forget Dairy Queen! Yumm!

This has got to be the dumbest thread... sigh.
posted by LouReedsSon at 5:59 AM PST on January 5

We have, for example, rice queens, taco queens, show queens, opera queens

And Ellery Queen.
posted by unreason at 6:04 AM PST on January 5

This has got to be the dumbest thread... sigh.
posted by LouReedsSon at 5:59 AM PST on January 5

Oh, I don't know. Have you read the Kid Rock thread?
posted by pmurray63 at 6:21 AM PST on January 5

Incidentally, does this mean that Alex is going to stop calling heterosexuals "breeders"?
posted by unreason at 6:37 AM PST on January 5

What quonsar and keswick have said so far is making it damn clear what kind of "apology" this really isn't. Wow.

So, you're judging the veracity of dhoyt's apology by what two other users have said. That makes tons of sense.

You know just because someone dosen't like you, dosen't make them a homophobe, but you seem quite happy to use anti-gay prejudice as a way to excuse yourself from looking at your part in this. You got enough chips on your shoulder to build a fucking treehouse.
posted by jonmc at 6:39 AM PST on January 5

A guy I know once called me a "foreplay queen," but aside from being TMI, that was, I think, a compliment.


Mmmm. Hi, have we met? :D


Incidentally, does this mean that Alex is going to stop calling heterosexuals "breeders"?

Oh dear. Alex, you've just lost any credibility you had been managing to hold onto.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:45 AM PST on January 5

Dammit, I missed quonsar's comment before it was axed.

/lumberjack bigot.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:48 AM PST on January 5

The conflict in this thread is not between gay people and straight people, as dirtynumbangelboy and my down-home running mate WolfDaddy have indicated.

It's between those who can take a joke, and those who can't.
posted by jonmc at 6:51 AM PST on January 5

and clarify that this is, indeed, not what he intended -Alex

-Which was done, repeatedly, and clearly.- JKF

On this thread, finally.-Alex


---

Alex, my comment even before it was explained explicitly in numerous emails was:

Uh....digaman is gay?

Wouldn't I have had to know that prior to 'insulting' him?

I use 'drama queen' as a jokey insult with female friends all the time when they're on a particularly ridiculous tear about something. Funny no one's ever called me a homophobe.

AlexReynolds, I really don't know what to say to you. You've branded me something so far off the mark I really have no ability to respond. You've totally misunderstood me and seem to care less about discovering the truth.

Wouldn't this support my explanation, Alex? Seems you are bending the truth about as far as it will go.

In all my time on MeFi, and in all the verbal scrapes I've been in with various folks just as ornery as me, when all is said and done I've never thought of someone as being truly impossible. You're the first to thoroughly embody that concept, Alex. Having seen this thread for the first time just now, I think it sums everything up.

Thanks to dirtynumbangelboy for hitting the nail on the head so skillfully, no matter how stubborn & vexing this particular nail seems to be.
posted by dhoyt at 6:51 AM PST on January 5

Uh, guys?
posted by agregoli at 6:55 AM PST on January 5

Wow...That was a great find unreason. I completely agree with dirtynumbangelboy. Alex, your outrage is now completely undermined by your own name-calling. And I'm very much against the use of the term drama queen.
posted by BlueTrain at 6:57 AM PST on January 5

I do think, however, that dhoyt owes all of us an apology for "drama-queen." That hyphen is way, way out of line.

I knew in my heart that all of this world's problemswar, famine, hatred, diseasecome back to bad punctuation. Now I know for sure.
posted by goatdog at 6:58 AM PST on January 5

Whoa--I've never even read that thread! I had no idea this was already discussed. I'm still shocked anyone but Alex thought I was making a 'slur' against gay men.

dhoyt's homophobic comment directed at digaman's sexuality was WAY WAY out of line

Amber, say it ain't so.
posted by dhoyt at 7:05 AM PST on January 5

You're welcome, dhoyt, though I think that other people--jonmc in particular--have summed everything up better than I have.

Look, Alex... you're wrong. It's been rather conclusively proven you're wrong. dhoyt even made it clear, in the original fucking thread that you were wrong. At that point, the mature person says "Alright, my bad, I'm sorry." They don't say "I'm sorry if what he said was genuine," or "I'm sorry, but..." or anything like that.

You just say: "dhoyt, I'm very sorry I called you a bigot and a homophobe, when that is clearly not the case."

That's it. Nothing more.


Oh, and amberglow... *sigh* You're smarter than that!
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:07 AM PST on January 5

I know I'm late to the party on this one, but just had to share. Our veterinarian called our puppy a "drama queen" when she was getting her shots.
posted by MrZero at 7:18 AM PST on January 5

Save the drama for your mama.
posted by ColdChef at 7:26 AM PST on January 5

This would not be out of place on ljdrama.org.

What a sad day. Of course, the irony of a 100 comment thread - dominated by two people - bitching and moaning about the term "drama queen" is sweet, indeed.
posted by absalom at 7:34 AM PST on January 5

Can we just agree that there is way too much hyperbolic drama queenery in this very thread?
posted by xmutex at 8:21 AM PST on January 5

Helpful Hint #27:

This whole thread is a lot more exciting if you picture dhoyt wearing a Burger King Crown, yellow suspenders and pajama bottoms with built-in footies while waving an oozing doughnut and Alex wearing a Las Vegas Show Girl hat with a clear plastic raincoat, red cummerbund, swim trunks and wooden clogs while waving a frozen fish.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:25 AM PST on January 5

[stabs self in chest, bleeds profusely, looks around to see if anyone has noticed]
posted by orange swan at 8:32 AM PST on January 5

stop that, orange swan, you're getting blood all over the nice, clean floor.
posted by jonmc at 8:34 AM PST on January 5

'Recently I came out and admitted I was a homosexual so now I can say the word "fag". On television, they usually don't allow "fag," but since I'm gay, it's okay. And with the new approval of the word "shit," I can now say: "Hey there, shitty shitty fag fag, shitty shitty fag fag, how do you do? Hey there, shitty shitty fag fag, shitty shitty fag fag, how do you do?"'
posted by darukaru at 8:36 AM PST on January 5

I think it's safe to say that I hate all of you and wish nothing but horrible things for your respective futures.
posted by Danelope at 8:41 AM PST on January 5

This whole thread is a lot more exciting if you picture dhoyt wearing a Burger King Crown, yellow suspenders and pajama bottoms with built-in footies while waving an oozing doughnut and Alex wearing a Las Vegas Show Girl hat with a clear plastic raincoat, red cummerbund, swim trunks and wooden clogs while waving a frozen fish.

Wasn't that the setup for Richard Foreman's last play?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:43 AM PST on January 5

This thread is awesome.

I'm still waiting for Alex's apology.
posted by mkultra at 8:54 AM PST on January 5

Incidentally, does this mean that Alex is going to stop calling heterosexuals "breeders"?

If it's now okay to throw "drama queen" at gay people, my use of "breeders" is just fine.
posted by AlexReynolds at 8:56 AM PST on January 5

As a fucking breeder, I didn't feel I had any standing to say this on my own, but since all sorts of gay MeFites apparently agree with me, here we go: AlexReynolds, you've been a complete jerk throughout this whole idiotic episode, and dhoyt, you have nothing to apologize for, you've been a mensch throughout

On preview: Alex, you're not just a jerk, you're an illogical jerk.
posted by languagehat at 8:57 AM PST on January 5

I'm still waiting for Alex's apology.

What did I do to you? Sorry?
posted by AlexReynolds at 8:58 AM PST on January 5

He means an apology to dhoyt, Alex.
posted by unreason at 9:01 AM PST on January 5

Can't I get a little respect?

*cringes as BK crown falls down over one eye & strained-too-far suspenders pop off with a comical BOING! sound; Carol Channing enters the scene and knees me in the groin*

Pray tell, what is that donut oozing? It ain't glaze.
posted by dhoyt at 9:02 AM PST on January 5

Alex, have you been reading this thread? dhoyt's not throwing "drama queen" at gay people, he's throwing it at YOU. Big difference.

Here's the difference between his use of drama queen and your use of breeders: his was a comment on your specific reaction, having nothing to do with your sexuality. Yours was a generalization implying "you straight people are all crazy". See the difference?
posted by chundo at 9:03 AM PST on January 5

He means an apology to dhoyt, Alex.

I already apologized to dhoyt.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:05 AM PST on January 5

dhoyt's not throwing "drama queen" at gay people, he's throwing it at YOU. Big difference.

He actually threw the epithet at someone else. But thanks for piling on, anyway.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:07 AM PST on January 5

Er, make that digaman's specific reaction. Jeez, I'm having trouble figuring out why you got involved in this at all now.
posted by chundo at 9:08 AM PST on January 5

I'm having trouble figuring out why you got involved in this at all now.

To focus attention on himself. He succeeded nicely. Bravo!
posted by jonmc at 9:14 AM PST on January 5

Thanks for piling on, jonmc. Your comment is lucid and well-informed.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:15 AM PST on January 5

If dhoyt offered a genuine apology -- if it was genuine -- then I apologize for calling him a bigot.

That's not a real apology, Alex. It's not even logical. It's essentially saying, "if dhoyt apologized for being bigoted, then I'll apologize for calling him a bigot." If you're acknowledging that he's not a bigot, then why does he need to apologize? A real apology is, "I called you a bigot, and I was wrong. I see that you're not bigoted. I'm sorry."
posted by unreason at 9:17 AM PST on January 5

If it's now okay to throw "drama queen" at gay people, my use of "breeders" is just fine.

That is quite petty. Almost as petty as the apology.

on preview, what unreason said. Petty.
posted by sciurus at 9:20 AM PST on January 5

If you're acknowledging that he's not a bigot, then why does he need to apologize?

Start at the very top of this thread, to get your answer.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:23 AM PST on January 5

Thanks for piling on, jonmc. Your comment is lucid and well-informed.

Actually, since I've been present since the beginning of this shit, actually it is well-informed thank you very much. You (and to be fair dhoyt, as well) have strung out this pointless little bitchfest over a relatively unimportant event waaaay too long. The only lucid conclusion I can come to, is that you enjoy the attention. Your general behavior does nothing to dissuade me from that conclusion.

Of course, you'll chalk my opinion up to homohobia, you're built in security against having to consider the eternal question "Am I just being an asshole?"
posted by jonmc at 9:24 AM PST on January 5

Jesus, this thread makes me want to slit my wrists with my pen cap.
posted by u.n. owen at 9:30 AM PST on January 5

Alright, Alex, since you're not understanding when we use pretty words, I'm going to be blunt:

You're a fucking idiot. You're fucking wrong, and you fucking well owe dhoyt a fucking apology.

You are the fucking drama queen here--and yes, thank you, I'm a fucking cocksucker too, so I can fucking say it as much as I fucking want, you little fucking victimized fucking faggot.

Drama queen, as the most up to date dictionary (urbandictionary.com; a lexicon of of words the way people actually use them) shows, is not fucking homophobic, you fucking moron.

Calling someone a fucking breeder, however, is very fucking clearly bigoted, you fucking bigot.

Now, kindly grow the fuck up and be a man; apologize to dhoyt, without any of your fucking whiny fucking bullshit.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:31 AM PST on January 5

Okay, Alex ... you're not a drama queen.

You're a theatrical matriarch.

Jeesus.

and what are we running for, jonmc? I need the right shoes ... I have a wide assortment ranging from fuzzy bunny slippers to red Joan Crawford "come fuck me" pumps, and I need to be informed to make the correct choice
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:31 AM PST on January 5

dirtynumbangelboy: by the way, I still disagree with you about the whole gay = bad as homophobia bit, but I thought you should know at the least that I feel bad about participating in the huge pileon against you over it. In fact, more than a few people present said they felt bad about it after you left.

I still disagree, but I am sorry about the way I treated you - and a few other people who were present have expressed similar thoughts.

Just thought you should know that.
posted by Ryvar at 9:34 AM PST on January 5

actually wear the leather thigh-highs, I love you in those. I as usual will be wearing the orthopedic white bucks.
posted by jonmc at 9:34 AM PST on January 5

Thank you for the sentiment, Ryvar.

That said, you're still wrong. Replace 'gay' with 'black' or 'asian' or what-have-you, and the comparison becomes clear.

Let's not derail this thread, however.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:36 AM PST on January 5

You're a fucking idiot. You're fucking wrong, and you fucking well owe dhoyt a fucking apology.

I received my apology and gave one in return. Whether or not you think dhoyt needed to apologize or whether my apology is an apology is beside the point.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:38 AM PST on January 5

Indeed.
posted by Ryvar at 9:38 AM PST on January 5

red Joan Crawford "come fuck me" pumps

Derek and Clive take a journey to the center of Joan Crawford.

Note: Stupendously Offensive
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:38 AM PST on January 5

As a gay guy who also meets the definition of 'breeder', can I take offence at both parties? It makes it easier to become a 'victim' than to figure out who is to blame here....

Sincerely though, folks, taking offence at immature insults, whether in the eye of the beholder or intentionally hurled in anger, is just a waste of time and energy. Yes, I know in the past I've objected to flaming & trolling, here & elsewhere: I see that as a stage I had to go through. Jerks will be jerks, the thin-skinned remain thin-skinned.

Film at 11.
posted by dash_slot- at 9:38 AM PST on January 5

You called that an apology, Alex? How old are you, anyway, 12?
You didn't deserve an apology. That's the end of it. You didn't deserve one in the first place, because of the reasons already covered: drama queen is not a homophobic insult.

Your use of 'breeders' further denied you any right to an apology.

Grow the fuck up, you fucking faggot. People like you are why I am sick to fucking death of goddamned gay people.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:41 AM PST on January 5

This just might be the most unbelievable Meta thread I've ever read. If there is one thing that annoys me more than anything else around here, it's over-"thinking", over-sensitive PC pussies. Oh, and gay men. God how I hate gay men... scared of 'em frankly.
posted by Witty at 9:43 AM PST on January 5

Hi dirtynumbangelboy! Can I meet you in the back of the surplus shop in Falling Down sometime? :-D
posted by shepd at 9:45 AM PST on January 5

"You breeders crack me up" in a thread about phantom pregnancies? What an asswipe.
posted by dabitch at 9:47 AM PST on January 5

Wow. I think my yearly haitus my be forthcoming.
posted by adampsyche at 9:47 AM PST on January 5

You're a theatrical matriarch.

Oh, this one's a keeper.
posted by GeekAnimator at 9:48 AM PST on January 5

You didn't deserve an apology. That's the end of it.

I'm afraid you are wrong.

Dhoyt asked in six emails that I apologize to him for calling him a bigot. I explained twice via private email why he did not deserve an apology, and finally asked him to apologize publically after I was sick and tired of my inbox filling up with spam. Dhoyt finally apologized, and I did in turn.

These are boring details, but please keep piling on, especailly when you don't have the background.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:50 AM PST on January 5

dirtynumb...., see now, what you just wrote is bigoted and stupid and ugly and racist.

If you meant it in an over the top manner then you you should perhaps note it. Otherwise maybe you should keep your racism to yourself?
posted by fenriq at 9:50 AM PST on January 5

God forbid we derail this thread!
posted by xmutex at 9:52 AM PST on January 5

Alex, six personal emails from dhoyt isn't spam, those are six attempts to try and resolve the issue without taking it into the public eye. You didn't feel like meeting him in the middle, hence the thread here and you feeling like people are attacking you.

And it was ten emails earlier in the thread.
posted by fenriq at 9:52 AM PST on January 5

If you meant it in an over the top manner then you you should perhaps note it. Otherwise maybe you should keep your racism to yourself?

Your comments are lucid, well-informed and relevant to this discussion.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:54 AM PST on January 5

Alex, dude, you're a good guy, your heart's in the right place, and other such introductory terms of respect and fellowship and stuff. But, in the name of sweet rimming Jesus, will you please stop acting like such an insufferable poof. dhoyt's not the first person you've taken a swing at for percieved homophobia, when they're actually on your side. They are not the enemy. They friend.

There's this story I know that might be instructive. There's this boy, see, and he does this thing where he cries "wolf"...
posted by flashboy at 9:55 AM PST on January 5

These are boring details, but please keep piling on, especailly when you don't have the background.

You have been giving us the background this entire thread... and I STILL thing you're wrong, hypocritical, overly sensitive and stubborn... not that there's anything wrong with that.
posted by Witty at 9:55 AM PST on January 5

*blinks at fenriq*

Er, pardon? Did you miss the part where I'm a big ass-pirate too? I can call him a faggot as much as I want to-- that's not bigotry, that's years of dealing with these prissy little fucks. Also... where's the racism?


I explained twice via private email why he did not deserve an apology,

Except that he did. As he FUCKING CLEARLY FUCKING INDICATED, YOU FUCKING IDIOT, he wasn't being bigoted or homophobic, and indeed, of twenty-odd thousand people here (not to mention several dictionaries), you seem to be the only one who thinks it was.

Jesus Christ, how stupid are you?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:56 AM PST on January 5

You didn't feel like meeting him in the middle

Really? You have copies of my email?

And it was ten emails earlier in the thread.

You are correct; I checked my mailbox afterwards and it was six, or maybe seven. One email was joined together with another.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:56 AM PST on January 5

Those damned Siamese email. Get you every time.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:00 AM PST on January 5

Okay. I got my apology, I made mine in return. The rest of the comments seem to be about throwing insults my way. Have fun, jackals, and good luck.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:01 AM PST on January 5

Please kill this thread now, before I agree with Witty in public.

And that wolf story is totally sanitized. See, most boys--and I use that term to many anyone over 18 but younger than me which is a huge number of people--used to cry "WolfDaddy". But then wrong, hypocritical, overly sensitive and stubborn people got all up in arms about it and, well, you know...

Also, quonsar, remember the horse cock thread? I think this is the gay equivalent of that. We just need someone to get banned for a week and we're golden showers.
posted by WolfDaddy at 10:01 AM PST on January 5

Okay. I got my apology, I made mine in return.

*hides before dirtynumbangelboy comes back*
posted by chundo at 10:04 AM PST on January 5

No, Alex, it's about trying to make you understand your behaviour-- and how you have no right to talk about homophobic insults if you're going to call straight people 'breeders.'

Sadly, you appear to lack the will or capacity to understand this. When you grow up, you'll hopefully look back on this and cringe.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:05 AM PST on January 5

this thread has made my life of sociopathic, drug and alcohol-addled bitterness worth every moment.
posted by quonsar at 10:05 AM PST on January 5

And that's why we love you, quonsypoos.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:07 AM PST on January 5

W/R/T "meeting in the middle", here are some bits from Alex's responses:

¢ "I refuse to apologize to a bigot. The time for tolerating this ignorance is over, as far as I'm concerned."

¢ "You did not qualify your insult with context. You still haven't. As far as I'm concerned my comments stand."

¢ "I'm not apologizing to you. Make whatever assumptions you want."

¢ "Ironically, you're the one who needs to issue the apology, to be honest."

Remind me again where this "Middle" is, and is there still a chance we can "meet" there like adults?
posted by dhoyt at 10:07 AM PST on January 5

Dhoyt does deserve an unqualified apology from you. You are the one that started this shitfest based on your over-sensitivity to an imagined insult.

Dhoyt does not owe you an apology of any kind, because he is not responsible for having started this shitfest and the insult to him was not imagined.

You have not apologized appropriately, and indeed what you have claim is an apology isn't an apology of any sort at all.

I suggest that if you wish to repair the damage you have done to your standing in this community, you offer an unqualified apology for having accused dhoyt of being a homophobe and bigot and for having started this shitfest.

Here, let me write the apology for you, and you can cut and paste it:

I, AlexReynolds, apologize profusely to dhoyt for having unfairly accusing him of homophobia and bigotry, and I apologize to the MeFi community for having created this shitfest by having imagined insult where there was none. I'm so sorry, everyone, and I resolve to be more sensible in the future.

Of course, you won't apologize, because as you have proven time and against throughout this shitfest, you can't admit to making a mistake.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:08 AM PST on January 5

And that is why we love you, fishypoos!
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:10 AM PST on January 5

I think you guys might want to turn down the outrage a wee bit. I don't know how many levels into meta we are with this thread, but before you put another layer of tar and feathers on Alex, remember that he didn't start this thread, and that his initial call for an apology came in an e-mail exchange. Asking privately for a public apology is not a public act. Dhoyt could have just let the matter drop. Nobody thought he was a homophobe in the first place, except possibly Alex, who's obviously not going to change his opinion based on additional insults from whomever.

Additionally, there was a lot of piling on even before Alex made an appearance in this thread, so his defensiveness, while regrettable, is understandable.
posted by anapestic at 10:13 AM PST on January 5

Dhoyt, if nothing else comes from this thread, at least you can rest easy that all of MeFi except AlexReynolds never thought you were a bigot. That's gotta be worth something.
posted by chundo at 10:13 AM PST on January 5

this thread has made my life of sociopathic, drug and alcohol-addled bitterness worth every moment.

I'm adhering to a strict drug regimen to keep my mind limber throughout.

dirtynumbangelboy, you said you were going to stop above, so please, stop. no matter how right you may or may not be, you're not winning any more converts with big bold cursing.
posted by adampsyche at 10:13 AM PST on January 5

This is quite the cat fight.
posted by orange clock at 10:15 AM PST on January 5

The thing is that AlexReynolds doesn't seem to know how to engage with people in any way other than flinging insults.

When he said that stupid thing about "breeders" on the phantom pregnancy thread, I responded with some jovial teasing and a link to Gay Parents magazine. I felt somewhat qualified to engage with that, seeing as my eggs now have lovely gay fathers, whereas my heterosexual husband and I have chosen not to have children.

I now realize I should have said "Fuck you, you fucking heterophobe!"

See, in the world according to AlexReynolds, he is a shining beacon of light and righteousness, not an ill-tempered jerk. He doesn't have to try to educate people or explain why he's unhappy about something or disagrees with a point of view--the sheer moral power of his rage should carry all before it.

That other thread made me so unhappy I wanted to cry. I wish some of the gay men who have chimed in here had commented on that thread, because I found it really depressing being lectured about my latent homophobia by amberglow.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:15 AM PST on January 5

I came away from the previous thread thinking that dhoyt knew that digaman is gay and, thus, in my mind his use of "drama queen" in that context is at least suspicious. And I disagree with others who think that its origin wasn't closely associated with the gay "queen" stereotypebut I do agree that it's since become ecumenical and many people don't associate the term with homosexuality at all. That's about all the defense I can muster for AlexReynolds as his behavior, as I've already said, has seemed to me to be almost wholly combative and theatrically aggrieved since he arrived here. Also, I fucking hate the fucking term "breeders". While superficially accurate, I think there's no doubt the term is intended to be, and is used as, a pejorative.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:16 AM PST on January 5

*blinks at fenriq*

Er, pardon? Did you miss the part where I'm a big ass-pirate too? I can call him a faggot as much as I want to-- that's not bigotry, that's years of dealing with these prissy little fucks. Also... where's the racism?

dirtynumbbangelboy, save that comment of yours and read it in a few years and see if you feel the same way. It is incredibly racist. You're making a negative generalization about all homosexuals based on your personal experience with a small sample, that is racism.

And I'm glad that your life now has meaning again, quonsar! I'm gonna go sniff industrial solvents and see if I can burn these brain cells right out so I don't have to waste brain space on this cluster fuck of a thread. What's your favorite?
posted by fenriq at 10:16 AM PST on January 5

I would like to apologize for participating in this thread. It was petty of me and I should know better. Will you forgive me?
posted by sciurus at 10:17 AM PST on January 5

This is the worst thread I've ever seen on MetaTalk.

Why is this grandstanding drama queenery still here?? This is NOT, in ANY way, what Meta is intended to be for. Shame on you all.
posted by rushmc at 10:18 AM PST on January 5

Oh wait dirtynumbbangelboy, since you're gay its okay to insult and denigrate other people who happen to be of the same sexual persuasion? Sorry, that's utter bullshit.
posted by fenriq at 10:18 AM PST on January 5

we're golden showers

Someone reverse-engineer a Cockney Rhyming Slang etymology for that so I can use it in mixed company. Also, have this wrapped up by 9. Alias returns tonight and I don't want to have to decide. Maybe I'll just tape this. Pony request: I want a Tivo feature so I get saved copies of threads like this. With the deleted comments. Too Hot for Mefee! That'd be worth $5.
posted by yerfatma at 10:19 AM PST on January 5

Thank you, dhoyt, for quoting my private email to you out of context, and without my consent.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:21 AM PST on January 5

"dirtynumbbangelboy, save that comment of yours and read it in a few years and see if you feel the same way. It is incredibly racist. You're making a negative generalization about all homosexuals based on your personal experience with a small sample, that is racism."fenriq

Homosexuality is a race? I didn't get that memo.

Bigotry. It's a useful word. Check it out.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:22 AM PST on January 5

And, yeah, posting private email is widely regarded as a Bad Thing To Do. But repeatedly mentioning contentious private correspondence, as AlexReynolds has done, is at the least indiscreet.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:24 AM PST on January 5

we're golden showers

Someone reverse-engineer a Cockney Rhyming Slang etymology for that so I can use it in mixed company.

Austin Powers?

And Alex, just give it a fucking rest already. At least dhoyt has owned up to his part is this stupid fucking fiasco, which is more than I see you doing.
posted by jonmc at 10:24 AM PST on January 5

Pre-emptive 'unban everyone who may or may not possibly will have been banned in this thread' post.
posted by darukaru at 10:25 AM PST on January 5

I don't know. One more outburst from dirtynumbangelboy and I just might cross the fucking fuck on over.

This pile of horseburgers-slash-theatrical matriarchy, while thoroughly entertaining, redefines inane. It seems Alex has successfully baited dhoyt into a fifteen-round slap fight, and it's going to go the distance.

Despite evidence showing that dhoyt has committed no crime at all, Alex wins this fight based on the fact that there are almost 200 posts in this stringy gray turd, and despite the fact that he keeps saying he'll go away, he doesn't. And won't, frankly.

He drama-queens as hard as he can because (a) he's obviously awfully good at it, and (b) he apparently loves the abuse.

So flog away, people. Let it all out.
posted by chicobangs at 10:26 AM PST on January 5

And Alex, just give it a fucking rest already. At least dhoyt has owned up to his part is this stupid fucking fiasco, which is more than I see you doing.

I am sorry to MeFi for not asking dhoyt to apologize privately.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:30 AM PST on January 5

I spend an awful lot of time worrying about how my mother once told me that nobody ever thought on their deathbed, "I wish I'd spent more time on the computer."

It made me feel that I might be throwing my life away on meaningless drivel.

I'd like to thank Metafilter for demonstrating that my mother was completely and utterly wrong - this thread is the kind of thing that, one fine Christmas morning when all my grandchildren are seated around me and gazing up at me with innocent wondering eyes - I'll be able to proudly relate to them. I was there, I experienced it while it was happening, and I commented in it.

I love you all.
posted by Ryvar at 10:31 AM PST on January 5

Late to the party.

...

This party sucks.
posted by scarabic at 10:33 AM PST on January 5

...into a fifteen-round slap fight...

BIGOT!

Can I start a new MeTa thread now?
posted by chundo at 10:34 AM PST on January 5

I received my apology and gave one in return. Whether or not you think dhoyt needed to apologize or whether my apology is an apology is beside the point.

If the only thing in this thread that's important is that you feel you gave an apology, (and not how other people are interpreting it), then you should be able to see that the only thing that's important in the other thread is that dhoyt didn't use the phrase as a derogatory slur, regardless of how anyone else might have interpreted it.

If you believe that the intent of the speaker is the most important thing, then rushing to accuse someone before you know of his intent will probably result in alot of unnecessary trouble.
posted by 23skidoo at 10:36 AM PST on January 5

Enough with the victim mentality, already.
posted by AlexReynolds at 1:29 PM CST on December 24
posted by me3dia at 10:39 AM PST on January 5

me3dia: Out of context and irrelevant to this discussion, but not surprising. Thanks.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:40 AM PST on January 5

If the only thing in this thread that's important is that you feel you gave an apology, (and not how other people are interpreting it), then you should be able to see that the only thing that's important in the other thread is that dhoyt didn't use the phrase as a derogatory slur, regardless of how anyone else might have interpreted it.

Which is why I issued an apology in return.
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:42 AM PST on January 5

Oh, but me3dia! AlexReynolds is absolutely right in his crusades against breeders and homophobes (even accidental ones) and obese people. Don't you know that he is helping people learn and grow by being a hostile fuck, just as having uncomfortable and even dangerous toilets is going to help morbidly obese people lose weight?
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:43 AM PST on January 5

You wanna go, chundo? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya wanna go? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya? Do ya?

Do ya?
posted by chicobangs at 10:44 AM PST on January 5

I am sorry to MeFi for not asking dhoyt to apologize privately.

Wow. I wasn't even this thick-headed in my first (second and third) call-out(s).
posted by Witty at 10:46 AM PST on January 5

for you alex:
And there's always a place for the angry young man
With his fist in the air and his head in the sand
He's never been able to learn from mistakes
He can't understand why his heart always breaks
His honor is pure, and his courage as well
he's fair and he's true, and he's boring as hell
And he'll go to his grave as an angry old man.
posted by jonmc at 10:46 AM PST on January 5

Out of context and irrelevant to this discussion, but not surprising.

If you can't see the irony, there's no hope for you.
posted by me3dia at 10:49 AM PST on January 5

Don't you know that he is helping people learn and grow by being a hostile fuck

Sure, you're not hostile at all. My response was entirely hate-filled to you, wasn't it?
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:50 AM PST on January 5

If you can't see the irony, there's no hope for you.

What's ironic? Your use of the word "victim" to try to nail me to wall for a point I never made?
posted by AlexReynolds at 10:52 AM PST on January 5

Jesus Christ! Die, thread, die!

And yeah, the irony of me adding a comment is not lost on me.
posted by Specklet at 11:00 AM PST on January 5

AlexReynolds, how sweet of you to accuse me of being hostile for quoting your own weirdly hostile comment back to you as part of a lengthier and more thoughtful response to what I saw was a reflexively hostile comment by you. Yep, it's all about my hostility!

You really, really need to climb down off your high horse for a second. Of course it's possible that we're all just meanyheads who don't understand your high moral purpose, but isn't it at least equally possible that you're alienating people with your confrontational attitudes and doing more harm than good?
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:02 AM PST on January 5

What's ironic? Your use of the word "victim" to try to nail me to wall for a point I never made?

No, your use of the word victim... nevermind. I don't have the energy.
posted by me3dia at 11:02 AM PST on January 5

Which is why I issued an apology in return.

You're like the energizer bunny. Stick to your guns, buddy! We'll come around!

I dunno, Specklet. This thread is the most entertainment my office has seen in weeks.
posted by chundo at 11:03 AM PST on January 5

Of course it's possible that we're all just meanyheads who don't understand your high moral purpose, but isn't it at least equally possible that you're alienating people with your confrontational attitudes and doing more harm than good?

Sidhedevil, he just hasn't figured out that it's not his politics that piss us off but his personality. It's not that he's gay, it's that he's a shrill, self-righteous, pompous, self-absorbed, narcissistic bore.
posted by jonmc at 11:06 AM PST on January 5

In order to prevent this thread from ever happening again, but to me instead of dhoyt, I make this noble promise:

I, Unreason, hereby promise that if I am ever angry or unpleasant to AlexReynolds, it will not be because he is homosexual, but because I find him extremely rude and annoying. Were he heterosexual, I promise that I would look upon him with exactly the same low level of respect.
posted by unreason at 11:06 AM PST on January 5

MetaTalk: Drama QueensTheatrical Monarchs and their Stringy Grey Turds
posted by romakimmy at 11:07 AM PST on January 5

Alex, would you just climax already so we can all go to sleep?
posted by chicobangs at 11:08 AM PST on January 5

I'd like a cigarette first, chicobangs honey.
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:11 AM PST on January 5

You're in luck, pal. I got two left.

I am thinking of England as hard as I can here.
posted by chicobangs at 11:12 AM PST on January 5

I've taken to assuming that any thread of 100+ comments is probably some sort of embarrassing clusterfuck.

I'm usually right.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:42 PM PST on December 22

Truer words were never written.
posted by theFlyingSquirrel at 11:13 AM PST on January 5

I like pancakes. Who wants pancakes?
posted by Jeremy at 11:15 AM PST on January 5

I should, of course, point out that I personally am a meanyhead who doesn't understand AR's high moral purpose, insults others' innocent gums, is completely biased against Republicans/Democrats, wants special treatment for Christianity, is anti-Christian, and rarely Closes Cover Before Striking.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:16 AM PST on January 5

A short stack with boisenberry and some bacon, please.
posted by sciurus at 11:17 AM PST on January 5

If you can't see the irony, there's no hope for you.

"Irony is wasted on the ignorant."

it's not his politics that piss us off but his personality

I don't really want to add to the pile on but, I agree, he comes off as having a major (like the size of Manhatten) chip on his shoulder.
posted by squeak at 11:17 AM PST on January 5

Alex, would you just climax already so we can all go to sleep?

I'm not the one throwing out insults left and right, but apparently I'm still the one with the chip on my shoulder. Its funny that someone brought up the idea of irony. Not many seem to know what it means. Feel free to stop at any time, folks.
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:19 AM PST on January 5

dirtynumbangelboy, you said you were going to stop above, so please, stop.

Sorry, where did I say that? Or are you misinterpreting my 'that's the end of it' statement?

And, yeah, posting private email is widely regarded as a Bad Thing To Do. But repeatedly mentioning contentious private correspondence, as AlexReynolds has done, is at the least indiscreet.

Granted... but once one starts mentioning that private correspondence as a reason to buttress their own position, they're hardly in any position to complain when the other party publishes the correspondence, thus proving AlexReynolds wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Sidhedevil, he just hasn't figured out that it's not his politics that piss us off but his personality. It's not that he's gay, it's that he's a shrill, self-righteous, pompous, self-absorbed, narcissistic bore.

<3 br>


Oh, and I just feel the need to say that I adore Sidhedevil.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:20 AM PST on January 5

I like pancakes. Who wants pancakes?

None for me, thanks. Pips packed me Scooter Pies.
posted by jonmc at 11:21 AM PST on January 5

"I'm not the one throwing out insults left and right,"

Because 'fucking homophobe'--which started all this--isn't an insult?

Don't be so disingenuous, you brainless twit. Go back to listening to Britney Spears and wishing you could afford a Louis Vuitton wallet.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:22 AM PST on January 5

Tacky as it may be to reprint private correspondence, I feel little guilt at this point. It seems the only concrete way to document all the outright lying that is going on.

Just now I've rec'd notice from Mr. Reynolds that I am "a dick". I emailed him back suggesting he didn't have a leg to stand on with regard to dicks. Then, as if to sum up this entire mess in one singular anecdote, he wrote back asking me to please never email him again. "Hands over ears. Lalalala. I'm not listening." That whole bit.

Speaking of anecdotes, I should mention that one of the things inspiring this whole argument was after seeing Alex's original accusations, a MeFi-reading co-worker belted out, "Hey, what's this about you being homophobic?" in front of a gay co-worker who I've recently been building a nice friendship with. I saw the look in his eye, and even after explaining myself you could tell I'd stepped in something. So I emailed Alex to ask WTF is up with the 'homophobia' comments. Amazing how these things snowball.
posted by dhoyt at 11:24 AM PST on January 5

None for me, thanks. Pips packed me Scooter Pies.

Oooh! Those look tasty!
posted by Jeremy at 11:24 AM PST on January 5

I say we hang him, then we tattoo him, and then we kill him.
posted by jonmc at 11:25 AM PST on January 5

Granted... but once one starts mentioning that private correspondence as a reason to buttress their own position, they're hardly in any position to complain when the other party publishes the correspondence, thus proving AlexReynolds wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

What, like: "...my numerous emails to Mr. Reynolds were greeted with..."?

Fuck you, dude, you're ignorant, and dhoyt is an asshole for posting small pieces of private correspondence out of context and without permission. Don't rationalize it.
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:26 AM PST on January 5

This Thread is Ridiculous and has Been Closed to Further Comments
_______________________________________________
posted by exlotuseater at 11:26 AM PST on January 5

Speaking of anecdotes, I should mention that one of the things inspiring this whole argument was after seeing Alex's original accusations, a MeFi-reading co-worker belted out, "Hey, what's this about you being homophobic?" in front of a gay co-worker who I've recently been building a nice friendship with. I saw the look in his eye, and even after explaining myself you could tell I'd stepped in something. So I emailed Alex to ask WTF is up with the 'homophobia' comments. Amazing how these things snowball.

And that's precisely the fucking problem with this twit. He's fucked up (temporarily, I hope) a friendship of yours.


Fuck you, dude, you're ignorant,

Sorry, which one of us called someone who clearly isn't, a homophobe? I'm fairly certain it wasn't me.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:27 AM PST on January 5

Then, as if to sum up this entire mess in one singular anecdote, he wrote back asking me to please never email him again.

Don't bother apologizing, asshole.
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:27 AM PST on January 5

Isn't he cute when he gets all excited and angry like that?
posted by jonmc at 11:29 AM PST on January 5

The day I resolved only to say things to people on the Internet that I'd be equally willing to say to them in person was a great day. Suddenly, my life became so much easier, so much happier.
posted by Prospero at 11:30 AM PST on January 5

Whoa. This thread could have 300 posts. That would be sweet.
posted by Jeremy at